I am not sure I follow the argument in the diagrams a,b and c. I would enclose the whole system (inland, where plants are providing more transpiration and so more rainfall) as a "unit". The same amount of moisture is being delivered from the ocean (via the top grey arrows) as in (a) therefore the same amount of water must leave this unit by river flow, regardless of how much or how many times that moisture is recycled within that unit by evapo-transpiration. So I would have the river flow in (b) the same as in (a) perhaps dispersed over a slightly larger area. I can certainly see that in (c) with the Biotic pump drawing more moisture in from the source, the river flow would increase - the Input into that unit (or cell is probably a better word) has increased so the output must increase.
I won't be able to make the time to watch Didi's discussion on the Biotic Pump and the investment that we need to make in transpiration, but I do wonder whether there is another aspect of the Biotic pump that we need to investigate. We have talked a lot about total rainfall, but not about the LENGTH of the rainy season. In southern Africa (where I am working to try to Bring back the Rains, by using the 3Rs - Restoring the Trees, Repairing the Soil and Raising the Water Table) our growing season is extremely short. I might be over-simplifying it, but it would seem that our ITCZ rainfall falls between December and February (and is partially affected by such global phenomenon as the El Nino condition in the Pacific). However (as Anastassia has suggested for the Amazon) the Biotic pump could be initiating rainfall in our area BEFORE the ITCZ moves south for our Summer rainfall period. It could be that the Biotic pump effect is very important for our late October and November rainfall, and again for our March and April rainfall. Extending the length of our rainy season would have a huge positive effect on our crop yields, on our pastures, and, by spreading the rain out over a longer season, would allow more infiltration with which to replenish the ground-water. At the moment, far too much of our rain runs straight off into the nearest river, often taking our precious top-soil with it - hence the need to Repair our Soils.
I do believe we have enough evidence and enough Science to know that Restoring our Tree Cover, Repairing our Soils and Raising the Water Table will have a beneficial effect on many regions of the world - currently blaming their dry conditions on Climate Change. The challenge (as I see it) is persuading enough people to follow this strategy - especially governments who need to embed it in their land use policies.
Amy, I too look forward to the channel's reply. I'll suggest that any remediation is good although results may depend a lot of local geology. But the long-term outlook is not good as all climate change indicators, according to the esteemed Peter Carter, are bad and getting worse faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk9vulmEbqc Working with our Arctic neighbors on any continent we will be able to adapt better than going alone as we can learn from each other the best strategies of adapting to unfavorable circumstances. Remember that working on our personal emotional resilience may be the most important thing we can do (see Dr. James Hollis on YouTube).
Thanks for the response! I’m definitely not under any illusion that we’ll stop passing the planetary boundaries and prevent mass scale ecosystem collapse. Nor am I particularly fearful or wallowing. I’m just curious if the small water cycle could be a meaningful lens for that region. I think culturally and communally it’s a winner because of the type of actionable and assessable change it could bring about
I used to have that POV but recalled the work of George Perkins Marsh. The changes we make are miniscule on the greater planetary system in some ways but great in others. Discernment and adaptation has always been our key to human survival. I don't subscribe for a number of years now that CO2 is as much as an issue as originally posed.
As for the biotic pump. I would ask the foresters at
Fearmongering is however a key psychological factor in changing the direction of the herd if you want it to go into a new direction to do anything or, even a trap.
"Do you think the small water cycle and eco restoration can play a major role in north western north america for reducing forest fires"
Yes, I think it can. However, one important thing to bear in mind is that there can be several stable states for a given landscape. E.g., for Australia we can consider a depauperate state with fire-resistant non-tree vegetation and a more luxurious state with drought-resistant vegetation including big trees and bushes (like where tree cangaroos lived).
What does it mean that these states are stable? This means that after a minor or moderate disturbance the ecosystem will return to the same state. E.g., you log trees but the tree cover self-recovers via succession.
But the depauperate state is also stable!!! If you just plant a few trees in a depauperate, dry landscape susceptible to fires (as modern Australia is), most probably they will be there just until the next fire.
It is from this observations that this idea of "fuel load" is spreading. When you are trapped in dry conditions, any extra vegetation will be "fuel load". Because dry conditions are stable.
It is like two stable states are separated by a hill, and unless you can effort to get it over the top of the hill, you will be sliding back to where you began.
In practical terms, it means that when you begin to restore the small water cycle and increase local vegetation, you should not expect that this plot will immediately become fire prone. Extra efforts, observations, and caring are needed at early stages of recovery. The more massive effort you are able to exert from the very beginning, the greater chances that you can get "over the top of the hill" rapidly and over a larger territory.
Thank you so much for taking the time. This is exactly what I was suspecting and hoping for guidance around. Do you have a sense of the scale of deforestation needed to shift the stable state in northern Pacific North West? It seems very drastic from wet to dry season and i’m hoping that getting water into the ground more effectively in the wet season via vegetation may make the hill steeper in moving to the dry summer state. Maybe shifting vegetation away from just conifers which have increased for their tiber value with the help of terrible herbicides among other things could play a role too.
Yes absolutely it can play a role. If you Iook at the various conversations I've posted from our "Can We Rehydrate California" workshops over the last couple of months (in my substack--the wisdom underground) you see some ideas.
see my notes on the Taklamakan Desert issue above. The Atmospheric Rivers carrying the dust is even more critical from the water cycle and nutrient impacts POV.
Thank You, Anastassia. Short term profits have been taken from ecosystems...
This becomes the more difficult part of our ongoing history, difficult to manage as a slow expansion of ecosystems over a very long time, and always vulnerable to the quick-grab.
In response to the problem of grass fires being the main source and the difficulty of grassland restoration back to chaparral, one option we use in Australia is goats for the reduction of invasive growth in difficult areas and this also allows for fire hazard reduction. If one were to couple goat grazing with the supplement of feed which is infused with seed from the chaparral it would be interesting to see if this form of seed dispersion both lying on the ground and below ground burying by dung beetles would provide a good dispersal for reforestation. Either way you would have reduced fire pressure, It would also be interesting in a place like Saudi Arabia as the goats are mainly hand fed and then allowed to graze as this would provide a seed stock that otherwise would not be available.
Hello Anastasia, it was so lovely to meet you in person in Paris at the Universiré de la Terre !! Thank you again for the important and exciting work you do. Xoxo Susan❤️🐞❤️
It is indeed a rare treat... I will continue reading your Substack and other webinars... Thank you again for the important work that youa are doing.. XoxoSusan ❤️🐞❤️
Welcome to plant complexity! Transpiration isn't plants sweating. When green leaves open their stomata to catch a CO2 molecule for photosynthesis, around two hundred water vapor molecules are released to the atmosphere from the leaf's wet interior. This enigmatic spending of precious water (commonly referred to as "waste" in plant ecology, similarly to how most DNA used to be referred to as "junk") moistens the atmosphere and changes its dynamics in such a manner that a big forest can draw moist winds in.
Hi Max I like to think of water as the main component of nutrient transfer through nutrient solubility and the hydraulic lift created through transpiration. The use of ground water is the main source of water that is not evaporated by the sun and plants have the ability to continue to transpire in low light conditions at greater rates than evaporation so they can continue cloud nucleation and formation under cloud which is one of the main drivers of the biotic pumps formation. Otherwise it would just rain where the clouds form in relation to temperature changes only.
Unfortunately there is the law of unintended consequences....the precautionary principle.
The Chinese are working to reclaim great portions of the Taklamakan Desert. It's the source of the dust seed nuclei for much of our western USA rainfall events. See The Dust Detective in High Country News. This is a catastrophe in the making for the Western USA.
I am not sure I follow the argument in the diagrams a,b and c. I would enclose the whole system (inland, where plants are providing more transpiration and so more rainfall) as a "unit". The same amount of moisture is being delivered from the ocean (via the top grey arrows) as in (a) therefore the same amount of water must leave this unit by river flow, regardless of how much or how many times that moisture is recycled within that unit by evapo-transpiration. So I would have the river flow in (b) the same as in (a) perhaps dispersed over a slightly larger area. I can certainly see that in (c) with the Biotic pump drawing more moisture in from the source, the river flow would increase - the Input into that unit (or cell is probably a better word) has increased so the output must increase.
I won't be able to make the time to watch Didi's discussion on the Biotic Pump and the investment that we need to make in transpiration, but I do wonder whether there is another aspect of the Biotic pump that we need to investigate. We have talked a lot about total rainfall, but not about the LENGTH of the rainy season. In southern Africa (where I am working to try to Bring back the Rains, by using the 3Rs - Restoring the Trees, Repairing the Soil and Raising the Water Table) our growing season is extremely short. I might be over-simplifying it, but it would seem that our ITCZ rainfall falls between December and February (and is partially affected by such global phenomenon as the El Nino condition in the Pacific). However (as Anastassia has suggested for the Amazon) the Biotic pump could be initiating rainfall in our area BEFORE the ITCZ moves south for our Summer rainfall period. It could be that the Biotic pump effect is very important for our late October and November rainfall, and again for our March and April rainfall. Extending the length of our rainy season would have a huge positive effect on our crop yields, on our pastures, and, by spreading the rain out over a longer season, would allow more infiltration with which to replenish the ground-water. At the moment, far too much of our rain runs straight off into the nearest river, often taking our precious top-soil with it - hence the need to Repair our Soils.
I do believe we have enough evidence and enough Science to know that Restoring our Tree Cover, Repairing our Soils and Raising the Water Table will have a beneficial effect on many regions of the world - currently blaming their dry conditions on Climate Change. The challenge (as I see it) is persuading enough people to follow this strategy - especially governments who need to embed it in their land use policies.
Bruce Danckwerts, CHOMA, Zambia https://www.radio4pasa.com/bring-back-the-rains
Do you think the small water cycle and eco restoration can play a major role in north western north america for reducing forest fires
Amy, I too look forward to the channel's reply. I'll suggest that any remediation is good although results may depend a lot of local geology. But the long-term outlook is not good as all climate change indicators, according to the esteemed Peter Carter, are bad and getting worse faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk9vulmEbqc Working with our Arctic neighbors on any continent we will be able to adapt better than going alone as we can learn from each other the best strategies of adapting to unfavorable circumstances. Remember that working on our personal emotional resilience may be the most important thing we can do (see Dr. James Hollis on YouTube).
Thanks for the response! I’m definitely not under any illusion that we’ll stop passing the planetary boundaries and prevent mass scale ecosystem collapse. Nor am I particularly fearful or wallowing. I’m just curious if the small water cycle could be a meaningful lens for that region. I think culturally and communally it’s a winner because of the type of actionable and assessable change it could bring about
I used to have that POV but recalled the work of George Perkins Marsh. The changes we make are miniscule on the greater planetary system in some ways but great in others. Discernment and adaptation has always been our key to human survival. I don't subscribe for a number of years now that CO2 is as much as an issue as originally posed.
As for the biotic pump. I would ask the foresters at
https://research.fs.usda.gov/srs/forestsandranges/locations/coweeta who I was a guest visitor years ago. It may prove to be a great multidisciplinary study
Fearmongering is however a key psychological factor in changing the direction of the herd if you want it to go into a new direction to do anything or, even a trap.
Jacques Attali.
https://rielpolitik.com/2021/05/04/brave-new-world-jacques-attali-international-banker-eugenicist-governmental-senior-advisors-dystopian-future/
"Do you think the small water cycle and eco restoration can play a major role in north western north america for reducing forest fires"
Yes, I think it can. However, one important thing to bear in mind is that there can be several stable states for a given landscape. E.g., for Australia we can consider a depauperate state with fire-resistant non-tree vegetation and a more luxurious state with drought-resistant vegetation including big trees and bushes (like where tree cangaroos lived).
What does it mean that these states are stable? This means that after a minor or moderate disturbance the ecosystem will return to the same state. E.g., you log trees but the tree cover self-recovers via succession.
But the depauperate state is also stable!!! If you just plant a few trees in a depauperate, dry landscape susceptible to fires (as modern Australia is), most probably they will be there just until the next fire.
It is from this observations that this idea of "fuel load" is spreading. When you are trapped in dry conditions, any extra vegetation will be "fuel load". Because dry conditions are stable.
It is like two stable states are separated by a hill, and unless you can effort to get it over the top of the hill, you will be sliding back to where you began.
In practical terms, it means that when you begin to restore the small water cycle and increase local vegetation, you should not expect that this plot will immediately become fire prone. Extra efforts, observations, and caring are needed at early stages of recovery. The more massive effort you are able to exert from the very beginning, the greater chances that you can get "over the top of the hill" rapidly and over a larger territory.
Thank you so much for taking the time. This is exactly what I was suspecting and hoping for guidance around. Do you have a sense of the scale of deforestation needed to shift the stable state in northern Pacific North West? It seems very drastic from wet to dry season and i’m hoping that getting water into the ground more effectively in the wet season via vegetation may make the hill steeper in moving to the dry summer state. Maybe shifting vegetation away from just conifers which have increased for their tiber value with the help of terrible herbicides among other things could play a role too.
Hi Amy,
Yes absolutely it can play a role. If you Iook at the various conversations I've posted from our "Can We Rehydrate California" workshops over the last couple of months (in my substack--the wisdom underground) you see some ideas.
Thanks so much for responding and your work in general. I’m really benefiting from reading it
Talk to the Chinese. and if you are in California, go to Scripps and visit with the Dust Detective there.
see my notes on the Taklamakan Desert issue above. The Atmospheric Rivers carrying the dust is even more critical from the water cycle and nutrient impacts POV.
Will check it out. Thanks!
Thank You, Anastassia. Short term profits have been taken from ecosystems...
This becomes the more difficult part of our ongoing history, difficult to manage as a slow expansion of ecosystems over a very long time, and always vulnerable to the quick-grab.
In response to the problem of grass fires being the main source and the difficulty of grassland restoration back to chaparral, one option we use in Australia is goats for the reduction of invasive growth in difficult areas and this also allows for fire hazard reduction. If one were to couple goat grazing with the supplement of feed which is infused with seed from the chaparral it would be interesting to see if this form of seed dispersion both lying on the ground and below ground burying by dung beetles would provide a good dispersal for reforestation. Either way you would have reduced fire pressure, It would also be interesting in a place like Saudi Arabia as the goats are mainly hand fed and then allowed to graze as this would provide a seed stock that otherwise would not be available.
Hello Anastasia, it was so lovely to meet you in person in Paris at the Universiré de la Terre !! Thank you again for the important and exciting work you do. Xoxo Susan❤️🐞❤️
Hello, Susan! Thank you for your kind note. It was great to see each other in real life, a luxury nowadays.
It is indeed a rare treat... I will continue reading your Substack and other webinars... Thank you again for the important work that youa are doing.. XoxoSusan ❤️🐞❤️
I am sorry to say I couldn't get my noodle to understand. I believe this might be my problem (and one of others you can address?)
I understand "evaporation". I believe everyone understand that. Without evaporation it would never get dry after raining.
I don't really appreciate "transpiration". Plants sweat? I hadn't thought about it! But I take your word for it! :)
Therefore, I would first model everything you did ONLY looking at evaporation. That's something I believe I, and everyone, can understand.
Weren't the U.S. dustbowls of 1930s explainable through evaporation only?
THEN
Once the reader is clear on the water cycle from heat, evaporation, wind and soil (ground) then...
Add the factor of transpiration. Explain how that fits in?
GREAT STUFF!!!!
Welcome to plant complexity! Transpiration isn't plants sweating. When green leaves open their stomata to catch a CO2 molecule for photosynthesis, around two hundred water vapor molecules are released to the atmosphere from the leaf's wet interior. This enigmatic spending of precious water (commonly referred to as "waste" in plant ecology, similarly to how most DNA used to be referred to as "junk") moistens the atmosphere and changes its dynamics in such a manner that a big forest can draw moist winds in.
I wrote more on biological complexity in "Information processing by natural ecosystems" https://bioticregulation.substack.com/p/information-processing-by-natural
Thanks!
Hi Max I like to think of water as the main component of nutrient transfer through nutrient solubility and the hydraulic lift created through transpiration. The use of ground water is the main source of water that is not evaporated by the sun and plants have the ability to continue to transpire in low light conditions at greater rates than evaporation so they can continue cloud nucleation and formation under cloud which is one of the main drivers of the biotic pumps formation. Otherwise it would just rain where the clouds form in relation to temperature changes only.
Thanks!
Unfortunately there is the law of unintended consequences....the precautionary principle.
The Chinese are working to reclaim great portions of the Taklamakan Desert. It's the source of the dust seed nuclei for much of our western USA rainfall events. See The Dust Detective in High Country News. This is a catastrophe in the making for the Western USA.